Sunday, July 3, 2011

Discussion with Non-Muslim 1

I was discussing with some Non-Muslims and I decided to share our discussions.

Understanding God’s works

Non-Muslim: If that is the case then all holy books which claim to be the words of God are false because God is something we can't understand and so his words are also things we can't understand.  Even the prophets are false as they can not understand God.  If they can't understand God, how can they claim to speak his words and know what he wants?

AbdulAziz: What I meant is that we can’t understand [All] the reasons behind God’s works. I am not sure how to write it properly in English but we in Arabic say:

من المستحيل الإحاطة بجميع الحكم من أفعال الله

We may understand one reason why God allowed one thing to happen but we can never know all the reasons.  This happens even in our life, an author, with his words, means a lot of things but the reader only might discover two wise thoughts behind the words… while another discovered ten. However God’s words is understandable, all can understand the words of God they are perfect with no flaw at all, for more than 1400 years no human could come up with a single flow in God’s words. Flow and contradiction only occurs in words written or said by being with limited knowledge and wisdom, but someone whose wisdom is above all and knows everything the chance of contraction is zero. We understand clearly why God said this or that but the pearls behind his words cannot be counted for no human can know it all unless that human was god which he is not.

Non-Muslim: To which the son will understand later on in life.  What the father knows is not out of reach of the son.  In fact, a father should hope his son knows and understands more than he does when his son becomes a man.

AbdulAziz: That’s why in many verses in the Holy Quran when Allah talks about his great signs like heavens and earth, mountains, creatures… he says these are signs for people of understanding, for people who have brain to think. It’s because such signs are so clear and they are proving the existence of God it’s really surprising that same humans are denying.

Non-Muslim:  So if I were to say... rape your wife, skin your children alive, and let you live for as long as I can (say... 50 years), God is still merciful?  Interesting....

AbdulAziz: You see, you are trying to prove God is merciful or not without having knowledge about him, that’s why God himself in his books said verily those who are talking about God without knowledge they are committed a grave sin.  Why is that? Well suppose I am well known for the many things I gave, I saw an animal is in pain, it is dying and there was no way to let it rest in peace but to kill it immediately, and then someone like you said you are not merciful. People would say that’s a wrong judgment because what AbdulAziz did is that he sets the animal free of pain, even normal humans like me and you would say your judgment was wrong. Imagine the difference between God and myself. If all the humans knowledge and wisdom accumulated and put in one brain compared to God’s knowledge and wisdom is like a ring thrown in the desert.  The problem is most people here may believe in the existence of God but they don’t believe in his attributes even if they claim they do.

Non-Muslim: One can see God anywhere he wants.  But that doesn't mean that he exists.

AbdulAziz: Can you see your own soul? You can’t see but no human can deny that human is not only the body, those who are claiming such a thing are just shouting to let sane give them the honor of being known as “Ignorant” because they are denying things that can’t be denied. It’s as simple as this, if you were able to answer the question God asked like in my signature, "Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? " (Translations of Allah’s words) if you answered you would realize you can’t deny the fact that God exists.

After countless discussions and topics >>> 

Non-Muslim: If you have evidence, show it. Using a cop-out like 'There is evidence, but you can't see it because you don't have faith' is not an acceptable 'proof'

AbdulAziz: The moment you will sincerely wish to know the truth and listen with your heart not listening with your ears and denying with your heart, you wouldn’t need any evidence. God’s signs were accepted by Billions, just because few people deny his existence doesn’t make the few people who denied his existence the smart while the rest ignorant.  If you are sincerely looking for evidence, please search my topics and read my posts, you will find the answer otherwise save your time and say: “I want to be what I want not I want to be what is right to be

Non-Muslim: should God interfere in certain situations
AbdulAziz: I guess it’s not we who should decide, it’s only God. You can’t tell someone who is smarter, greater, far more knowing than you to do something when his plan is better than yours; his actions are perfect compared to yours. In fact when we are saying God should do this or do that we are actually insulting God and in fact insulting ourselves by showing others to what extent our ignorant can grow.  If we humans can’t accept other humans to tell us we should do this or that in a specific situation how we are allowing ourselves to say such things about what God should do. I am translating what God said in the Holy Quran “Say: Do ye know better than God?” every sane human knows the difference between a human and God, if you ask a kid, a learned man, an old man, a farmer, if you ask him who knows more, you farmer or God? You will not find a sane person saying he is smarter than God. The moment you will claim you are smarter and greater than God (If you believe in his existence and attributes) then you can say what God should do and shouldn’t do, however the moment you will say that I guess you will find it’s quite hard to find someone replying to you only if he was on the same level of ignorance. 

To Be Continued...


  1. i love the arabic language:

    من المستحيل الإحاطة بجميع الحكم من أفعال الل

    yes, this is impossible but is true!

    See Islam "like a prism" and put God in many visions are to much interesting!

    One Catholic confesses to the priest many terribles sins like a violation, abused, murder...: And "for me" unfairly... the priest, other human, said 4 example: "Son reads 10 Ave Maria (prayer) and then you will free the any sin"

    Sorry: WTF?!

    for me this is impunity!

  2. hahahaha i agree "with anonymous person".

    The Catholicism is impunity!

    ps. I didn't know you wrote many discussions I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X, XI... Muslim vs. Non Muslim wow!!! (I'll promise read and debate?)... not, debate maybe no more!