Sunday, July 10, 2011

Discussion with Non-Muslim 5

Non-Muslim: bear in mind that faith also creates many destructive forces. It has both pros and cons. Wars, mistreatment of others, etc shouldn't be forgotten.

AbdulAziz: That’s only faith filled with ignorance otherwise if one has faith in Almighty God and he follows exactly what God said, faith can never be considered as a disadvantage. It’s true that there might be wars in the name of God but how is that wrong? God told us, in the book we believe, he revealed that if you were attacked you have the right to defend yourself and fight back. God told us through his prophets that we shouldn’t kill others just because they have different religions. Mistreatment of others!? It’s not faith that drives them to mistreat others but in fact ignorance because the original of every wrong deed and bad behavior is ignorance.  Ignorance mixed with faith can result in what you said like wars or mistreatment of others. It’s ignorance about faith that drives such acts, while faith in Almighty God and following what he said as I said earlier, their fruits are only beneficial for the whole humanity in fact for the whole world.

For example, our Prophet Mohammed peace be upon him, warned us that if we killed innocent Non-Muslims (Jews, Christians…etc) we will not even smell the scent of heaven which can be smelled from XYZ years! If Muslims really had faith that God exists, Prophet Mohammed is his messenger and he will be rewarded what I mentioned then for sure this will lead that he don’t kill. However, if we saw an evil person killing innocent human beings with no rights at all it’s our humanity added with faith will give us the greater motivation to help the innocents thus wars sometimes occurs, but if it occurred for this reason (Defending the weak and the innocent) even war a destructive force has its benefits. What God said in the Quran:

And did not God check one set of people by means of another, the earth would indeed be full of mischief: But God is full of bounty to all the Worlds.”

Non-Muslim: Faith is not the sole motivator. When I donate to charities and give blood, I never have a theistic mindset. Why not make the test for entering heaven "trying to be the most moral person you can be", instead of the specific reason you try to be moral?

AbdulAziz: Who said Faith is the sole motivator!? It’s not but it’s one of the greatest drives for humans to do good deeds, I already explained this previously, if you are having difficulty of understanding it I might give you other examples as well. I when I want to give blood, I can have the mindset that I want to be the most moral person I can be, this is a great motivation however I also have other thing that boosts my motivation, it’s my faith. When we Muslims give charities for others we can have many reason why we are giving the charity, it can be to be to help others, to remove my attachment from money…etc that’s all beautiful but what makes the job much easier is having faith in a God who said give charity, your money will be blessed, I will reward you even if it was a simple charity I will grow it for you like a mountain. This faith alone greatly boosts motivation to give charity even for those who love money and fear of turning poor.

Non-Muslim: since you mention the Quaran never conflicting with science, I will assume you acknowledge evolution since it is labeled a scientific fact by 99.9% of the scientific community. A micro-fraction askew from the percentage of scientists that acknowledge gravity/gravitation.

AbdulAziz: That’s only claim because the same theory you labeled as fact are considered false not by me or Muslims but those scientific community you claimed. Plus 99.9% is not 100% there are countless professors already considering this theory as history. Countless articles were written proving that the theory is wrong. I never might countless sane people saying fire is cold! So once that theory is considered fact as the fact that fire is hot then I will acknowledge it. 

Non-Muslim: Are you saying that God exists because the universe exists and everything except God has to have been created? However, to claim that God is the exception to the rule doesn't make sense.  Why would he be the exception?  Isn't that a little too convenient? 

AbdulAziz: Yeah that’s what I am saying; everything besides God is creation, thus created by someone, creator who we call God.  The problem some people don ‘t understand the concept of God I am talking about,  when I say God I am assuming you understand what it really means to be called “God”. A God worthy to be worshiped should be the only creator and sustainer of all that exists and that nothing and no one exists alongside Him. Perfect God is the God that doesn’t have any partners or a son. Once you say God was created you are actually saying he is a creation not the creator and we both by common sense know that’s not perfect. God is not created, nor is he like his creation in anyway. In Quran he calls himself by a number of names and three of them are: The First, The Last, The Eternal, who is sought after by His creation, while He has no need from them at all, The All Almighty, The All Merciful, The Pure One, The Source Of Peace, The Compeller, The Absolute Ruler, The Creator, The Maker Of Order, The Shaper of Beauty, The Giver of All, The Sustainer, The Loving One, The Truth, The All Powerful, The Glorious, The Owner of All, The Knower of All, The Hearer of All, The All-Aware, The Magnificent…etc He always has existed and He never was created, as He is not like His creation, nor similar to it, in any way. Once you defined God as I have defined you would understand why God is exception and that’s perfectly logical.

Non-Muslim:  It's like if I said "Well everyone has to follow the rules that I create but not me because I created the rules."

AbdulAziz: We would have followed your rules if you were having the same attributes as the God I described above. If a human claimed he is God I can easily say you are not God thus you are not worth worshiping, because you die God doesn’t die. You were in a woman’s womb for 9 months mixed with blood and all, God doesn’t need that. You eat, drink you are forced to go to toilet almost daily it’s not something you can control.  God is not being forced but he forces so simply we can say yeah true you claimed something but your claim is wrong….

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