Wednesday, July 20, 2011

Discussion with Non-Muslim 10

Non-Muslim: If someone thought their own religion was absurd, they wouldn't keep it

AbdulAziz: That’s not true, I know some people at work who are Christians they admit their religion is absurd yet they are Christians and they don’t want to change their religion. There are many reasons why one might not change his beliefs. 

Non-Muslim: I would need proof that Islam is the best. I say 'best' because perfection doesn't exist.

AbdulAziz: Well if it was religion made by humans, book written by humans it might not be perfect, but since it was by Allah his words are perfect, his religion is perfect. Proofs are very clear and all over, but as they say some require only one proof to be guided and while others even if you give them 1000 proofs, they wouldn’t change their beliefs, I wish you are not of the last.

Non-Muslim: If I pour water on top of a valley, is it random chance that it will end up at the bottom?

AbdulAziz: No it’s not random chance but causes that caused the water to end up at the bottom like the gravity and there can be many other causes. 

Non-Muslim: I can't claim that God didn't create the universe, because neither of us were there to witness it.  You can use logic all you want, but logic is nothing without evidence.

AbdulAziz: You said it, you can’t claim that God didn’t create the universe, however, if we can logically and by reasoning prove that he exists, by pure reason that the book he revealed cannot be from humans but only from God then the words in that book will be evidence for us how the universe was created, what will happen in the future…etc There are many things related but once collected and you have proved obviously that he exists then you will have the evidence. For example, if I was a king and I wanted you to do a task, however, I sent a messenger to give you the letter where I described the task in the letter, first you have to know if I actually exist, once you have collected all the logical reasons why I should exists, then you have to prove that letter is written by me, is truly my words and it cannot be words from others, then you can proceed in doing the task.

Non-Muslim: I asked why god created the devil. You said it is not our place to question god. This dismisses the question without actually addressing its substance. Obviously, I will never stop questioning god, so telling me not to makes less sense than giving me a decent answer. That is, assuming you have one.

AbdulAziz: Well the answer consists of two parts, the first part is that if you are someone who believes in God’s existence, if you are someone who believes in his names, attributes and qualities then you don’t need to ask this question, the moment you ask such questions, means you don’t have full faith in what you believed or in another word, you are having doubts.

Second part, which I am not sure if I understood your question well, I think you are asking about the wisdoms behind this act (El Hekma) why he did this or that. We as humans can’t discover all the wisdoms behind God’s acts; I explained that before you may refer to my previous posts. However, at least I as AbdulAziz, can give you with some reasons. First of all, if God didn’t create the devil we wouldn’t know who is siding with God and who is siding with the devil and based on this the reward he/she may receive. Another reason without the devil, atheists wouldn’t be denying the existence of God, without devil there will not be Muslims! Muslims are those who submitted their will to God, because there is something that affects our will it’s when we struggle against it and submit to God it’s when we are called Muslims.

Without the devil and the fact that he encourages human being to do bad deeds you wouldn’t appreciate the good deeds, as they say you cannot appreciate the beauty of day if there was no darkness. Without the devil we wouldn’t know the names of almighty God, for example, we know Allah is creator because he created us, Allah is the supporter because he supports his servants, Allah the one who punish those who disobey him, if the devil wasn’t created we wouldn’t learn. There are countless wisdoms a human may get out of this, it depends on the knowledge one have. I know you might ask why Allah want his servants to fight for him, submit their will, worship him…etc well he doesn’t need them Allah is perfect without us, he is perfect with us, he is Always perfect. However, for example if I am great king, I know I am perfect and great, however, what is better to be king without kingdom, servants…etc or to be a King with great kingdom, billions of servants, billions of…etc another example, if I am a great painter, the perfect painter, it’s always better to have beautiful painting instead of just calling myself a great painter.

Non-Muslim: whatever gives every indication that it is a certain way, should be assumed to be that way until new evidence or reasoning overrules it. For instance, if "genocide by natural diseases/disasters/etc" strikes everyone as immoral, they should not be assumed to be moral simply because they were god's action.

AbdulAziz: I guess I grasped what you are trying to say. You should know that actions are related to two things, one from God’s view (I don’t know how to use the exact world to translate what I want to say) and the other is from the Human’s view. For example, it’s God that allowed a certain thing to happen say for example that I kill a human being, from the humans or my point of view this action is wrong and the result for me is wrong so I shouldn’t be happy about it and I should change it and don’t give up saying it’s what God willed because God already told us what God likes and dislikes. However, from God’s view when he allowed such act its not totally evil, he might allowed my killing to give chance for other humans to be brave to help the innocent, to take me to justice, to show people the result of bad deeds…etc there can be thousands other good reasons compared to the one seeming bad act. For example, we sometimes hate to take medicine but because we know the many advantages of this medicine we take it. I wish I did understand your question well if not please can you explain in another way.

Non-Muslim: The "theory" of gravity is also a "fact".

AbdulAziz: I guess we mean different thing then, because I know the gravity is fact, there are proofs that cannot be denied, however, the theory there is room for uncertainty,  for example, the fire is hot is an obvious fact because it was proved.  The Quran is in agreement with most known scientific fact and does not contradict any known ones; I will post numerous quotes from the scientific community regarding the nature and the origins of the Quran. French physician Maurice Bucaille said: “Our knowledge of these disciplines is such that it is impossible to explain how a text produced at the time of the Quran could have contained ideas that have only been discovered in modern times”. Keith L. Moore said: “It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later.”

Tejatet Tejasen said: “From my studies and what I have learnt at this conference I believe that everything that has been recorded in the Quran 1400 years ago must be true. That can be proved through the scientific way". E. Marshal Johnson said: “The Quran describes not only the development of external form but emphasizes also the internal stages -- the stages inside the embryo of its creation and development, emphasizing major events recognized by contemporary science... If I were to transpose myself into that era, knowing what I do today and describing things, I could not describe the things that were described... I see no evidence to refute the concept that this individual Muhammad, had to be developing this information from some place... so I see nothing in conflict with the concept that divine intervention was involved..." 

T.V.N. Persaud said: “Muhammad was a very ordinary man. He couldn’t read, didn’t know how to write, in fact he was an illiterate... we’re talking about 1400 years ago, you have some illiterate person making profound statements that are amazingly accurate, of a scientific nature... I personally can’t see how this could be mere chance, there are too many accuracies and like Dr. Moore I have no difficulty in my mind reconciling that this is a divine inspiration or revelation which led him to these statements". What I am trying to say established fact that was proved can never contradicts Quran or Allah…